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The Plight Of Kim Dotcom
#1
[Image: images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQkhNpqPUoNv5RQ4G4i7OY...vI4OcIaHNA]

As spoRv suggested, I've put the shouts here for discussion (and don't forget to take the poll):

Shoutbox Wrote:(UPDATED: okay, okay, I added everyone who commented on my shout and it's offshoots)

BronzeTitan  04 Oct 00:29
Out-of-control Washington DC at the behest of Hollywood: Former Megaupload chief Kim Dotcom ... In January 2012, New Zealand authorities armed with rifles and tactical gear and accompanied by police helicopters raided his rented mansion at the behest of the US, seizing millions of dollars in property and freezing Dotcom's overseas bank accounts. ... In 2016, an [U.S.A.] appeals court ruled the civil forfeiture could move forward because Dotcom never came to the US to contest it — thus making himself subject to "fugitive disentitlement." ... and thus unable to contest the seizures. - https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2017/10/us-su...re-appeal/

BronzeTitan  04 Oct 00:29
"Kim Dotcom has never been to the United States, is presumed innocent, and is lawfully opposing extradition under the United States-New Zealand Treaty—yet the United States by merely labeling him as a fugitive gets a judgement to take all of his assets with no due process," Rothken said. "The New Zealand and Hong Kong courts, who have authority over the assets, will now need to weigh in on this issue and we are cautiously optimistic that they will take a dim view of the Fugitive Disentitlement Doctrine and oppose US efforts to seize such assets." - https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017...ture-case/

BronzeTitan  04 Oct 00:34
BTW -- "US police also allegedly abuse civil forfeiture laws en masse, and seized more assets than burglars stole beginning in 2014." [Gizmodo] -- 'Nuff said?

Jetrell Fo  04 Oct 02:08
I support Kim Dotcom. [Image: smile.png]

PDB  04 Oct 02:28
Ok I guess I'll be the guy and ask how is this relevant to fanres?

ilovewaterslides  04 Oct 02:30
Yeah, the conversation about 35mm was better, right?

. . .

BronzeTitan  04 Oct 19:35
@ PDB & ilovewaterslides: Well, to paraphrase German Lutheran pastor Martin Niemöller (during the Nazi reign of terror) ~ ~ First they came for children downloading songs, and we did not speak out because we were not their fathers. Then they came for the DVD pirates, and we did not speak out because we did not make pirate DVDs. Then they came for Kim Dotcom for his hosting website, and we did not speak out because it was not in our countries. Then they came for fair-use us and there was no one left to speak out for us. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came

ilovewaterslides  04 Oct 20:14
Sure thing. I'm not pointing out the fact of speaking up. I'm only agreeing with PDB because I believe it's not the best place to talk about this stuff.

PDB  04 Oct 23:23
Yeah I think you miss the point BT, this is not your personal soapbox.

PDB  04 Oct 23:39
Whether I agree or disagree with you is irrelevant, there are better forums for you to post that on than a movie restoration forum.

spoRv 05 Oct 00:10
@BronzeTitan: other forums, or, at least, post it in the "everything else" forum, if you want us to be aware of this!

. . .

BronzeTitan 05 Oct 02:14
@ PDB - My answering your question was justification for your continuing with an insult? (Don't answer that.) [Image: smile.png] ... @ ilovewaterslides - It's called a "shoutbox". [Image: smile.png] ... @ spoRv - Seriously? Okay, you know I have regard for you. Let me bow [metal screeching]. Now, can somebody help me up?

Jetrell Fo  05 Oct 02:20
Maybe we shouldn't have a shoutbox then?

Koopa Luath  05 Oct 02:28
[Image: rolleyes.png] And this is why we can't have nice things. Perhaps try to behave yourselves when it comes to political discussion? Or--better still--take it to Everything Else or PM.

Jetrell Fo  05 Oct 02:33
I was just saying ... it's the only real time discussion method on the site, for anything.

Jetrell Fo 05 Oct 02:34
It was a fair question ... nothing political and certainly nothing to roll one's eyes about, lol.

. . .

PDB  05 Oct 04:14
@BT. Insult...no I didn't insult you BT. I'm not sure how you can even read that into what I said. I am calling into question why you felt the need to share this. Seriously, was it info you thought important to share on a fan restoration site?

PDB  05 Oct 04:14
There are no rules for the shoutbox besides the rules of the forum. You can post everything, you posted. You are well within you right under the current rules. But I personally ask you as I have asked others (on all sides), to practice good human decency and lower the political rhetoric. Because I’m tired of it and I know many others are too.

PDB 05 Oct 04:15
I, myself, am full of political opinions but I respect that people might not want to hear them in this place. Because, like them, I come to this place so I can work on these stupid little insignificant projects. Not to get into political debates that go nowhere. Because let’s be honest: people just cannot have calm and rational political discussions anymore.

PDB  05 Oct 04:18
It’s corny but I like people coming together here and helping each other on these projects. Not tearing them apart through political discord. I think we have already seen the damage it can do to a forum.

poita  05 Oct 06:51
indeed
(Ouch. I never knew bronze fingers could get writer's cramp.)

Well, there it is. And here is the number of the posts that prolonged my original shout, politically-accused of having nothing to do with FanRes (in count order):

PDB :: 07
BronzeTitan :: 05
Jetrell Fo :: 04
ilovewaterslides :: 02
spoVr spoRv :: 01
Koopa Luath :: 01
poita :: 01

* Let's give it up for our winner ... PDB ! *

Seriously though, despite bogey-words thrown around here, my quote-link-posts reported and demonstrated that anything that involves anything having to do with Hollywood's products ("Hollywood" meaning anything produced anywhere worldwide) puts anyone's head on the chopping block at any whim of any government agency.
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"The gods want their entertainment.  The gods of Greece are
cruel!  In time all men shall learn to live without them."
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#2
Who's spoVr?!? I'll kick him outta here!!! Smile
Fundamental collection thread | Vimeo channel | My personal blog
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#3
LOL! You've never had writer's cramp if it wasn't bronze-fingers writer's cramp. A thousand pardons, oh great SpoRv! I will atone ...

[Image: Bronze_s_blackboard_Spo_Rv.png]

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"The gods want their entertainment.  The gods of Greece are
cruel!  In time all men shall learn to live without them."
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#4
Hey, my shoutbox post is missing from all of that .... damn you Bronze Bumbler .... may you be cursed to turn copper, lol.
For new members: Please do not ask where to get something. Participate in the forum, talk to people, make friends. Then someone will help you find what you want.
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#5
LOL! I was trying to keep it to directed negative replies (less work that way). Okay, I've added you (and all the others) back into your rightful places ... and humbly beg forgiveness, oh great project makers!

[Image: Bronze_s_blackboard_Jetrell_Fo_Koopa_Luath_poita.png]

But don't take back your curse. I hear that copper is a precious "monetary" metal and before the paper currency scam collapses, I want as much valuable metal as I can get.   Big Grin
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"The gods want their entertainment.  The gods of Greece are
cruel!  In time all men shall learn to live without them."
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#6
So, anyone else? ... (waiting) ... No one? ... (waiting) ... Good!   Tongue   (Ah, the side issues ... )



Now back to the subject of my original shout and of this thread:

ArsTechnica ( Jul 24, 2017) Wrote:https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017...-admitted/

According to the New Zealand Herald, a New Zealand High Court judge revealed on Friday that the country’s signals intelligence agency, known as the Government Communications Security Bureau (GCSB) illegally spied on Kim Dotcom for two months longer than previously admitted. ... Shortly after NZ media reported the court's judgement, Dotcom tweeted: My lawyers filed a silver bullet with the High Court yesterday. The US extradition case is dying. And someone is going to pay for this mess.

Also:

New Zealand Herald (July 25, 2017) Wrote:http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/articl...d=11895112

Dotcom last night tweeted he was now looking to move to Queenstown after money and possessions previously frozen in Hong Kong by the US Government had been released.

The HK High Court has just released some of my seized funds. Also getting 4 containers full of seized property back. I miss Hong Kong — Kim Dotcom (@KimDotcom)

Next, for those ignorant or willingly ignorant of U.S. copyright law (since the U.S. is the shaker and mover, and is the "bad guy" in the Kim Dotcom affair, we'll examine them), a quick look will show the "progressive" scam of favors to "Hollywood", the other bad guys of this story. Here now is the U.S. Constitution and what the founders of the U.S.A. wanted for "copyrights":

United States Constitution Wrote:The Congress shall have Power ... to promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries.
United States Constitution, Article I, Section 8, clause 8

Notice, it's for the "science" and the "arts". (It's not for individuals and corporations to enrich themselves for lifetimes!) In return for government enforcement of the exclusive rights for authors to profit from their works within a reasonable time to do so, then the public-at-large would have free and unfettered use to promote and/or develop it. Everybody wins! THAT'S HOW IT'S SUPPOSED TO WORK!

Now, after decades-long publicity campaigns by Hollywood , coupled with their $$ power and $$ influence in Washington D.C., anything Hollywood says becomes truth and law (never mind it being un-Constitutional law). And so police armed like Navy SEALS bust down residential doors and threaten families at gun-point because their kid was on the computer. The courts "charge" them the standard Hollywood fee of hundreds of dollars per song (or whatever).

So what does all this have to do with FanRes (asked one not-so-inquiring mind)? Plenty. As I succinctly put it in my replying shout, all these "projects" and their "authors" can just as easily be in the same jeopardy as was Kim Dotcom. Think you're "safe" by "fair use"? Think again. Think you're "safe" in other country? Think again. Think any of these sites can't be spied upon and hauled into court? Ask Kim.
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"The gods want their entertainment.  The gods of Greece are
cruel!  In time all men shall learn to live without them."
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#7
(2017-10-06, 07:39 PM)BronzeTitan Wrote: Notice, it's for the "science" and the "arts". (It's not for individuals and corporations to enrich themselves for lifetimes!) In return for government enforcement of the exclusive rights for authors to profit from their works within a reasonable time to do so, then the public-at-large would have free and unfettered use to promote and/or develop it. Everybody wins! THAT'S HOW IT'S SUPPOSED TO WORK!

Yes that part is correct, not just in the US but in the UK too.

Quote:So what does all this have to do with FanRes (asked one not-so-inquiring mind)? Plenty. As I succinctly put it in my replying shout, all these "projects" and their "authors" can just as easily be in the same jeopardy as was Kim Dotcom. Think you're "safe" by "fair use"? Think again. Think you're "safe" in other country? Think again. Think any of these sites can't be spied upon and hauled into court? Ask Kim.

Why are you examining the Dotcom case before there's a clear outcome? At the moment it's still in the judicial phase, so wait and see how that turns out.

It has nothing to do with Fanres:

1. Fanres is hosted in Poland, not the US. Poland has so far refused to ratify ACTA (the international version of DMCA).
2. Dotcom knew exactly what he was doing. He was intentionally profiting from unauthorised uploads, the site encouraged and rewarded people for doing so, and he had no mechanism in place to redirect the revenue earned through advertising on Megaupload to the rightful rightsholders.
3. Suing individual unauthorised fan projects is rare, and very unpopular.
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#8
(2017-10-07, 02:39 AM)Valeyard Wrote: Yes that part [copyright law] is correct, not just in the US but in the UK too.

I've heard this persistent rumor ... of America being founded by colonies of ... English men!  Big Grin  Yes, and they brought with them the best, while abandoning the worst, of their old country.

Valeyard Wrote:... so wait and see how that turns out.

Alas, if those Englishmen didn't speak up before it's end (to other countries sympathetic to the new cause of individual liberty before God), those colonies would still be flying the Union Jack.

There are plenty of facts now to report. Of course, you may be silent if you wish, but ignorance is not bliss. So let's get to your argument:

Valeyard Wrote:Fanres is hosted in Poland, not the US. Poland has so far refused to ratify ACTA (the international version of DMCA).

What make you think "governments in cooperation" are not just another form of tyranny? At the behest of the U.S., Kim Dotcom was spied upon by his own government (which is illegal for them to do to their own citizens), as reveal by the judge in that case. You think any site is not "on their radar". It doesn't "cost" them any more to surveil -- it's what they do.

Valeyard Wrote:Dotcom knew exactly what he was doing.

Every website "knows exactly what it is doing". Every government "knows exactly what it's doing", but that didn't stop the illegal spying.

Valeyard Wrote:Suing individual unauthorised fan projects is rare, and very unpopular.

The "law" is what the governments say it is ... no matter if the law itself is unlawful. In the end, it all comes down to what they can get away with, even to the extent of busting down doors and automatic weapons at the ready. (For example: "The latest threat to intellectual property is, apparently, a nine year old girl." -- No kidding: Finnish police confiscate 9 year old’s Winnie the Pooh laptop for illegal downloading  Rolleyes  Don't be too smug, FanRes.)

The early Englishmen who founded America sought to even that lopsided field of play:

Quote:But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object, evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. -- Declaration of Independence, 1776

And, indeed, they did so even to some of their own in their new government. Thomas Jefferson explained:

Quote:"God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. … What country before ever existed a century and half without a rebellion? And what country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure." -- Letter to William Stephens Smith (13 November 1787)

.
( BTW, I hold nothing against anyone's intolerance. I even sent brief "Still Friends?" PMs -- read but not answered -- to those who took stand against my 3 shouts of quotes with links. The ironic part is that those shouts would have long since scrolled away. Those interested would've been informed. Those not interested would've moved on. However, such maturity did not prevail and here we are. But it did make for a fun mock "contest" above. The only thing is, I hate losing contests. )
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"The gods want their entertainment.  The gods of Greece are
cruel!  In time all men shall learn to live without them."
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#9
More on The Plight Of Kim Dotcom ..

Engadget: [U.S.] Supreme Court denies Kim Dotcom petition to keep $40 million in assets
https://www.engadget.com/2017/10/03/supr...0-million/

Engadget 10-3-17 Wrote:In April of this year, the file-sharing maven asked the US Supreme Court to overturn a 2014 ruling that let US authorities keep $75 million in assets seized during the original raid on his house. The petition was denied on October 2nd, which allows the seizure order to remain intact.
...
Fortunately most of my assets are in Hong Kong and HK courts won't allow forfeiture of my assets simply because I legally oppose extradition - Kim Dotcom (@KimDotcom) October 2, 2017


Meanwhile ... back at the New Zealand International Film Festival ...

[Image: MV5BZGFlZmRiNTAtODc3Yi00MjJlLWI0NTAtNTZh...68_AL_.jpg]
Hoyts: NZIFF Kim Dotcom: Caught in the Web

Hoyts 2017 Wrote:Director  Annie Goldson
Main Cast  Kim Dotcom, Mona Dotcom, Glenn Greenwald, Lawrence Lessig, Gabriella Coleman, Jimmy Wales, Jonathan Taplin, Greg Sandoval, Sean Gallagher, Mike Masnick, Moby
Genre  Film Festival
Running Time 112 MIN
Release Date  03 August 2017

Kim Dotcom has become such a familiar part of New Zealand’s media and cultural furniture that it is easy to forget the jaw-dropping astonishment of the dawn raid on 20 January 2012, when 76 officers swarmed upon the German internet mogul’s mansion, bounding from helicopters, armed to the teeth.
...
In documenting the drama – court tussles, scraps with John Key, the Internet Party, the ‘Moment of Truth’ – Goldson resists any temptation to extol or excoriate, while underscoring, beyond the political circus and braggadocio, just how pivotal this case is in the internet age.
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"The gods want their entertainment.  The gods of Greece are
cruel!  In time all men shall learn to live without them."
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#10
Yeah... Fanres is moving in a gray area, but:
Fans is not a file hosting site, nor a torrent tracker.
It is a discussion board.
It is also no filesharing system using links to file holsters.
"Never cut a deal with a dragon..."
- Old Shadowrun wisdom
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