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iTunes new Dark Knight/DK Rises master
#81
Good question, I'd also like to know about the process. My lame guess would be that it depends from situation to situation.

My assumption was based on the fact that iTunes colors or general WEB-DLs usually seem to match the Blu Rays, which indicates that at least in the past with SDR, the final colored masters were already given to them. I can't quite imagine why studios who want to get out a very profitable movie would give an HDR master to iTunes and say "do whatever with it". But it's not impossible I guess. I'd take a gander that they prepare various masters for various resolutions (both SDR and HDR) and all that's left to do for the streaming company is to request the resolution they want and encode it. So for example the different framing on the IMAX shots would already be decided early in the chain, not by iTunes themselves (who likely don't even have the personnel nor time to make such artistic choices).

As for the iTunes looking worse than madVR, I would argue it perhaps depends on the scene (aside from the seemingly non-optimal black levels which can probably be improved on either way). Someone mentioned a tad more magenta and compared to your madVR shots I think that's plausible. The more reason to believe that the grading is "official", as I don't think iTunes would apply a blanket magenta tint on their streams. But I don't feel like there is generally too much magenta in most shots, many of which still are rather greenish/orangeish.
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#82
Well if I could get a hold of the physical disc I could use a 4K player to downrez them and cap it at 1080p, like I did with Blade Runner:

https://forum.fanres.com/thread-1442-pos...l#pid35230

As for the look of these new masters, I get where they were going: towards a warmer, more orange look. I saw a bit of that while researching/working on TDK, particulally the skin tones. Problem is I'm not entirely convince this is right color scheme either just from the pics I have seen of 35mm prints of TDK and people's accounts of seeing it. Same with BB. The existing BD/HD-DVD looks pretty faithful to some 35mm prints pics. But in the end who knows.

There is going to be a DCP release for the 10th (!) anniversary of TDK. I'm curious to see how it matches up.
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#83
As I understand it HDR must undergo a separate colour grading pass, separate even from the theatrical DCP master. Apple will most likely have had access to the non-HDR master in order to generate the 1080/720p encodes.

Nolan will have almost certainly used the Interpositive as the source for the new UHD blu rays:

A few words about...™ Christopher Nolan Collection -- in 4k UHD Blu-ray

This chimes with Nolan's film philosophy, all of his home releases/DCPs have come from IP material. The argument is that you would never project negative, therefore a scan of a negative can never give you a theatrical experience.

Interestingly Robert A. Harris' opinion of the UHD blu ray boxset is that it isn't a huge upgrade over the blu rays, in part because of the Interpositive decision but also that:

"It's that the previous discs were as good as they are."

So go figure.

In any case WHV/Nolan have managed quite the feat of upsetting everyone (everyone) on blu-ray forum with soft/DNR'd 4K, colour changes, no Atmos and no remastered 1080p blu rays (Begins is just a re-encode of the original master)  Happy
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#84
(2018-01-22, 03:55 PM)CSchmidlapp Wrote: The fact that the MADVR does a better looking job says alot, its a free filter!
A professional conversion should look fantastic and has in the past Smile

I'm not familiar with this MADVR filter CSchmidlapp, can it's output be captured to produce a 1080p encode? Those caps look pretty darned good to me  Ok
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#85
(2018-01-22, 06:37 PM)zoidberg Wrote:
(2018-01-22, 03:55 PM)CSchmidlapp Wrote: The fact that the MADVR does a better looking job says alot, its a free filter!
A professional conversion should look fantastic and has in the past Smile

I'm not familiar with this MADVR filter CSchmidlapp, can it's output be captured to produce a 1080p encode? Those caps look pretty darned good to me  Ok

This MIGHT be of interest to you: https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1828291
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#86
(2018-01-22, 06:39 PM)TomArrow Wrote: This MIGHT be of interest to you: https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1828291

I was pointed there, too, asking about an HDR -> SDR conversion... now, I'm deeply into AAP-AR projects to test it, so it will be great if anyone would take a look at it - and post some screenshots.
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#87
(2018-01-22, 06:39 PM)TomArrow Wrote:
(2018-01-22, 06:37 PM)zoidberg Wrote:
(2018-01-22, 03:55 PM)CSchmidlapp Wrote: The fact that the MADVR does a better looking job says alot, its a free filter!
A professional conversion should look fantastic and has in the past Smile

I'm not familiar with this MADVR filter CSchmidlapp, can it's output be captured to produce a 1080p encode? Those caps look pretty darned good to me  Ok

This MIGHT be of interest to you: https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1828291

http://www.madvr.com/

Ive had no luck with capturing the render. There must be a way to do it.
I had a look into it when I was impressed with the up-scaling on show with SD to HD. Not as good as a few of the Avisynth scripts out there but pretty impressive.

Thanks for the link Smile
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#88
(2018-01-22, 06:08 PM)PDB Wrote: Well if I could get a hold of the physical disc I could use a 4K player to downrez them and cap it at 1080p, like I did with Blade Runner:

https://forum.fanres.com/thread-1442-pos...l#pid35230

As for the look of these new masters, I get where they were going: towards a warmer, more orange look. I saw a bit of that while researching/working on TDK, particulally the skin tones. Problem is I'm not entirely convince this is right color scheme either just from the pics I have seen of 35mm prints of TDK and people's accounts of seeing it. Same with BB. The existing BD/HD-DVD looks pretty faithful to some 35mm prints pics. But in the end who knows.

There is going to be a DCP release for the 10th (!) anniversary of TDK. I'm curious to see how it matches up.

The grade at the moment looks like a slightly toned down version of the one used in the earlier Trailers.
i say at the moment because im viewing it converted, and HDR to SDR will certainly get better over time.

I was 90% certain the trailer's colours we're the DCP grade, until I saw the later T.V Spots that had the Original Blurays grade and look! To be fair it's proberbly when they created that home video master, and used that. But it shook my confidence.
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#89
(2018-01-22, 04:10 PM)TomArrow Wrote: Good question, I'd also like to know about the process. My lame guess would be that it depends from situation to situation.

My assumption was based on the fact that iTunes colors or general WEB-DLs usually seem to match the Blu Rays, which indicates that at least in the past with SDR, the final colored masters were already given to them. I can't quite imagine why studios who want to get out a very profitable movie would give an HDR master to iTunes and say "do whatever with it". But it's not impossible I guess. I'd take a gander that they prepare various masters for various resolutions (both SDR and HDR) and all that's left to do for the streaming company is to request the resolution they want and encode it. So for example the different framing on the IMAX shots would already be decided early in the chain, not by iTunes themselves (who likely don't even have the personnel nor time to make such artistic choices).

As for the iTunes looking worse than madVR, I would argue it perhaps depends on the scene (aside from the seemingly non-optimal black levels which can probably be improved on either way). Someone mentioned a tad more magenta and compared to your madVR shots I think that's plausible. The more reason to believe that the grading is "official", as I don't think iTunes would apply a blanket magenta tint on their streams. But I don't feel like there is generally too much magenta in most shots, many of which still are rather greenish/orangeish.

I don't know how much the studio handle in house anymore.

Would Apple as a company have it's own encoding specs by an in-house team?
I'm pretty sure Netflix are supplied with a master they do there own compression to.
Bluray labels like Shout Factory and Arrow often get there hands on Studio Master Materials.
T.V stations certainly used to get high quality masters from the studios to do with as they needed to deliver there service.

Im pretty sure you could match the iTunes version with a few tweeks to the HDR to SDR settings.
Like you have said there very similar, and I think its very much just variations in conversion methods Smile
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#90
My main complaint is the changing AR again.
Id like the consistent 2:35:1 version, with the full frame IMAX sequences as extras.
Ive found the back and forth on all these variable AR releases distracting.
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