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Does edit a DD 2.0 Surround track remove the surround?
#1
Hi, I want to synch a dolby track from a DVD with a video from a blu ray.

The Dolby track have the good speed, but not the same length.

Can I add or remove silence of the track, without re-encoding (like smart rendering), and keeping the surround encoding?

If I do not have the choice to re-encode, do I need to mount the bitrate (192 to 224)? I imagine that all softwares do not have the same algorithm of compression, and if I add bitrate, I make sure to keep my quality, right?
Thank you in advance, and sorry for my bad english Cry
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#2
You can edit Smile
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#3
(2019-01-19, 06:01 PM)Falcon Wrote: Hi, I want to synch a dolby track from a DVD with a video from a blu ray.

The Dolby track have the good speed, but not the same length.

Can I add or remove silence of the track, without re-encoding (like smart rendering), and keeping the surround encoding?

If I do not have the choice to re-encode, do I need to mount the bitrate (192 to 224)?  I imagine that all softwares do not have the same algorithm of compression, and if I add bitrate, I make sure to keep my quality, right?
Thank you in advance, and sorry for my bad english Cry


Is it a PAL or an NTSC source?
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#4
(2019-01-19, 06:51 PM)dwalkerdon Wrote: Is it a PAL or an NTSC source?


NTSC for both


(2019-01-19, 06:38 PM)bendermac Wrote: You can edit Smile

My post or my track? Tongue
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#5
(2019-01-19, 07:02 PM)Falcon Wrote:
(2019-01-19, 06:51 PM)dwalkerdon Wrote: Is it a PAL or an NTSC source?


NTSC for both


(2019-01-19, 06:38 PM)bendermac Wrote: You can edit Smile

My post or my track? Tongue



the way that i do it is that i mux the audio that I want to sync to the video source using mkvtoolnix, and then using VLC I calculate the offset  using the J or K buttons on the keyboard to set the delay so you can see if the audio is synced to the video. the next step i do is I put the delay value that I got from VLC into MKVtoolnix into the delay box and then mux it to a new MKV file.


this might not work for all films, so the results may vary.
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#6
(2019-01-19, 07:23 PM)dwalkerdon Wrote:
(2019-01-19, 07:02 PM)Falcon Wrote:
(2019-01-19, 06:51 PM)dwalkerdon Wrote: Is it a PAL or an NTSC source?


NTSC for both


(2019-01-19, 06:38 PM)bendermac Wrote: You can edit Smile

My post or my track? Tongue



the way that i do it is that i mux the audio that I want to sync to the video source using mkvtoolnix, and then using VLC I calculate the offset  using the J or K buttons on the keyboard to set the delay so you can see if the audio is synced to the video. the next step i do is I put the delay value that I got from VLC into MKVtoolnix into the delay box and then mux it to a new MKV file.


this might not work for all films, so the results may vary.

Yes, I do that too Smile
But this time I would like to create a Blu ray (with the menu and bonus features), not a MKV
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#7
You need to adjust the delay by using a cut that is on video on both masters and calculate the difference in mls.
If you do it by ear and visual, it will end up being approximative.
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#8
(2019-01-19, 09:10 PM)Stamper Wrote: You need to adjust the delay by using a cut that is on video on both masters and calculate the difference in mls.
If you do it by ear and visual, it will end up being approximative.

Either this, or sync the waveforms, which I like to do as well.

With that said, AC-3 can only be cut in 20ms steps (or similar) afaik, so it will never be 100% accurate anyway, especially if cuts have to be made in between. But if the cuts are only in the beginning, delaycut for example will give you the remaining delay as output, which you can use as delay value in an mkv and possibly in a Blu Ray (not sure).
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#9
(2019-01-19, 09:10 PM)Stamper Wrote: You need to adjust the delay by using a cut that is on video on both masters and calculate the difference in mls.
If you do it by ear and visual, it will end up being approximative.

My DD track have this length 01:39:55.136

My blu ray track have 01:40:17.088

The difference is 21,952 ms

The Blu ray start and end with the MGM logo (with the Lion), not the DVD.
Apart these 2 logo, the film has the same editing. I created a MKV with a delay of 10 seconds (the duration of the MGM logo) on my dolby track, there is no loss of synchronization during the movie.


I just need to edit the beginning and the end by adding the sound of the MGM logo




(2019-01-19, 10:29 PM)TomArrow Wrote: Either this, or sync the waveforms, which I like to do as well.


How could I do that please? Smile

Quote:With that said, AC-3 can only be cut in 20ms steps (or similar) afaik, so it will never be 100% accurate anyway, especially if cuts have to be made in between. But if the cuts are only in the beginning, delaycut for example will give you the remaining delay as output, which you can use as delay value in an mkv and possibly in a Blu Ray (not sure).


Can I add 20ms without re-coding heavily? It'sike Smart-rendering ?
This method interests me (not for this project) can we do this on delaycut?
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#10
(2019-01-20, 09:47 AM)Falcon Wrote:
(2019-01-19, 10:29 PM)TomArrow Wrote: Either this, or sync the waveforms, which I like to do as well.


How could I do that please? Smile

Quote:With that said, AC-3 can only be cut in 20ms steps (or similar) afaik, so it will never be 100% accurate anyway, especially if cuts have to be made in between. But if the cuts are only in the beginning, delaycut for example will give you the remaining delay as output, which you can use as delay value in an mkv and possibly in a Blu Ray (not sure).


Can I add 20ms without re-coding heavily? It'sike Smart-rendering ?
This method interests me (not for this project) can we do this on delaycut?

Yeah, you can, but I am not sure if it's exactly 20ms, that's just from my memory. It might be a different value in actuality.

Just read the manual or google instructions for Delaycut, it's not too complicated. Basically, you can cut off parts from the start or end and you can "glue" together two .ac3 files too (though I'm sure that requires them to have the same properties like channel layout etc., or else it would mess with the result).

Also, just saw the question in your title ... yes, you can edit (as in cut) without losing surround information. Check out "Dolby Stereo" on wikipedia. The surround comes from an analogue matrixing algorithm which is explained in the wikipedia article. It being analogue results in it not really being affected by digital compression too badly. With that said, I wouldn't play around too much with EQ etc. personally, because I think that could potentially mess with the phase of the signal and so on and possibly compromise the ability to dematrix the signal to surround. Though I suppose if you wanted to do such editing, you could dematrix, then do your edit, and then rematrix (or just keep it as 4.0/5.1 or whatever).
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