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Psycho - UNCUT
#31
(2016-09-14, 04:09 AM)jerryshadoe Wrote: I realize it's a long shot, but I can't think of any other option other than waiting for a German 16/35mm print showing up on ebay and that's as much, if not more, of a "crap shoot" as contacting the TV stationWink

Better that than doing nothing at all, I guess.
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#32
(2016-09-20, 03:53 AM)monks19 Wrote:
(2016-09-14, 04:09 AM)jerryshadoe Wrote: I realize it's a long shot, but I can't think of any other option other than waiting for a German 16/35mm print showing up on ebay and that's as much, if not more, of a "crap shoot" as contacting the TV stationWink

Better that than doing nothing at all, I guess.

Well, so far that's all that has been done - nothing Sad
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#33
Hmm. Time perhaps to ask Poita if he can help us track it down, then (if he's willing & able to help). I think he does have some connections we don't have here that might be useful.
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#34
This may be true, but keep in mind that poita is already an extremely busy person and he may simply not have the time to pursue this. Still, this is an additional option that I believe should be explored, but... by someone here who is already well acquainted and on really good terms with him (higher chance of a response this way, IMHO)

Also, I genuinely believe that we should put together a formal letter (for now in English, until we can agree on content and find the right translator who can put it into formal German) that would be used to attempt contact with the German TV station that has aired this "uncut" edition.

I, also believe that if we already have a thread and users discussing this topic (which we do here) that it might help us (this is an assumption and I may be wrong, but it won't hurt) make a stronger case to the station by showing them that the interest for this edition is coming from more than just one or two people.



Right off the beginning, there is already a few questions I wish to pose to you guys, so we can start assembling this:


- Should the letter be bilingual (German and English) in case we can just have the "conversation" with whoever is in charge in English, so no need for translator?? Or would it be taken more seriously if it was only in German? (Some cultures respond better to things that are only in their language and some respond better when the bilingual approach is used... don't make me explain the psychology behind this, just need to know which category the German people mostly fall into)

- Should the letter mention our community/website/forum/etc. ?? I believe it should, but if that's the case then what do you guys think would be the best presentation of our community?

- Assuming that the forum is mentioned, what would be the best example(s) of "our" work?

- If there is a copyright issue brought up by them, what should our rebuttal be? (as in, the whole "piracy" issue - since we are kinda working in a "gray area," at best, and our only "redeeming" quality is the fact that we do all of this for free and don't share it publicly unless it's royalty/copyright free material)

- Should we mention that this is a preservation project that will only be shared amongst "us"/collectors? (again, to reassure them that we are not trying to acquire this footage for any personal/monetary gain and that ANYONE that would posses the "uncut" copy is already an owner of a legal, commercial release)

- Should we try to acquire the entire film or JUST the "missing" bits? (where - for example - we roughly tell them, "Hey, we need minutes 18-21 and 68-73"

- Should we mention that they are our "last resort," and that we have tried to acquire the footage elsewhere ourselves with no success?

- If they are not willing to share their source, should we ask if the film could be re-broadcast in HD, instead of the standard definition that we've seen so far?


This is all just a quick "brainstorming" session and NOTHING here is set "in stone" yet, but I would like to try to start putting this together. ALL and ANY (constructive) suggestions/advice/opinions are welcome and even encouragedWink
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#35
@Jerry. Based on a similar experience I had about another film (Chaplin's Limelight), don't get your hope's up. This TV station might just ignore you because they won't care at all. Here's what I think, based on you precedent message.

(2016-10-03, 02:19 PM)jerryshadoe Wrote: - Should the letter be bilingual (German and English) in case we can just have the "conversation" with whoever is in charge in English, so no need for translator?? Or would it be taken more seriously if it was only in German? (Some cultures respond better to things that are only in their language and some respond better when the bilingual approach is used... don't make me explain the psychology behind this, just need to know which category the German people mostly fall into)

I don't think that's really important, one way on the other they'll get the message. Although, it may be better only in German, it'll probably show that we put some effort into it. If they even bother to answer, it'll be something like "Your message has been received and will be treated. Thank you for your consideration", at first, but if a proper answer come of it, it'll be something that they do not have much control on this.


(2016-10-03, 02:19 PM)jerryshadoe Wrote: - Should the letter mention our community/website/forum/etc. ?? I believe it should, but if that's the case then what do you guys think would be the best presentation of our community?

- Assuming that the forum is mentioned, what would be the best example(s) of "our" work?

I don't think it's a good idea to mention Fanres (or OT). It may attract unwanted attentions like the Star Wars thing happened on the OT forum weeks ago.


(2016-10-03, 02:19 PM)jerryshadoe Wrote: - If there is a copyright issue brought up by them, what should our rebuttal be? (as in, the whole "piracy" issue - since we are kinda working in a "gray area," at best, and our only "redeeming" quality is the fact that we do all of this for free and don't share it publicly unless it's royalty/copyright free material)

- Should we mention that this is a preservation project that will only be shared amongst "us"/collectors? (again, to reassure them that we are not trying to acquire this footage for any personal/monetary gain and that ANYONE that would posses the "uncut" copy is already an owner of a legal, commercial release)

- Should we try to acquire the entire film or JUST the "missing" bits? (where - for example - we roughly tell them, "Hey, we need minutes 18-21 and 68-73"

- Should we mention that they are our "last resort," and that we have tried to acquire the footage elsewhere ourselves with no success?

- If they are not willing to share their source, should we ask if the film could be re-broadcast in HD, instead of the standard definition that we've seen so far?

The copyright issue alone will be mostly the reason why they won't collaborate in any way, despite the reason(s) & rebuttal you give. That's if they bother to answer at all instead of ignoring your plea. They won't care about anything else, the risks with Universal's lawyers are too high. As for asking to re-broadcast it, why not. But I doubt it'll be in HD. All HD copies belongs to Universal and only them can send the broadcast signal of it. Also, their HD copy is the standard & widely available edited version. If the TV channel have access for a made for TV only version/master, my guess is that it's not a 16mm or 35mm print, but a high quality videotape copy (which the resolution is higher than the one used for home video market, as you may know). But, with this letter, if they're sensible enough to it, they might actually give us some clues to where the original copy (from which this tv master has been made) coming from. I doubt it's from a private collection of any kind (I might be wrong). Maybe a state collection (like a cinematheque) or directly from Universal that had this print in their vault and didn't bother at he time to check if it contained unseen footage. One more thing we have to consider. Was that footage still present during it's first domestic or international release to begin with ? If yes, what evidences do we have that foreign language copies (pre-dating any home video release) didn't also get cut ?

I think personally that if we keep looking for a german print (either 16mm or 35mm) and also an american one, we might be able to make a new nearly complete version of Psycho.
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#36
There are two 16mm prints on Ebay at the moment. One is in the UK.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PSYCHO-1960-ALFR...1989608215
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1960-16MM-FILM-P...1681200867
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#37
For those interested in the project I mentioned on the previous page of the thread with the scenes from the German broadcast inserted back into the UK BD - https://forum.fanres.com/thread-1214.html
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