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Indiana Jones UHD Collection
#71
(2021-06-11, 04:21 PM)Stamper Wrote: How can we remux the Crusade LDs tracks without re-doing them? I'm guessing half a frame delay is not noticeable?

That's what I usually do. 21 ms out of sync, I don't notice it, even on impact folley such as knocking on a door.
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#72
Thanks. I was browsing through the dubs, and really the 5.1 mixes from the old Blu-rays are the pits. The Atmos remixes sounds way closer to the original Laserdiscs. I would basically forget about any 5.1 from the DVD/BR era from those.
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#73
I usually like Atmos mixes but the Raiders one is just a bit much, it feels like an amusement park ride. It's as if everyone is walking around in tap-dancing shoes and every door needs its hinges oiled badly. It looks great, but it's kind of a shame they went way too hard giving just about every single object in frame its own audio track.
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#74
Couldn't you just extract non-atmos audio from the new atmos track?
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#75
I find I have a flac on my hdd of the original LD [LV 1376]

"This release, as well as the CAV edition [LV 1376-2] released a short time later, contains the original theatrical Dolby Stereo mix. The film was mixed to be released in the VistaSonic sound system, which was a 4-track discrete optical format without the limitations of the 4:2:4 Dolby MP Matrix. However, due to problems experienced with the VistaSonic releases of Popeye and Dragonslayer, the decision was made to use Dolby Stereo instead. No remixing of the discrete 4-track mix was done for the Dolby format and in addition, the discrete VistaSonic mix was used as-is for the 70mm release but with 2 Baby Boom sub tracks added to create the 6-track mag. I do not know if later releases used the VistaSonic Dolby Stereo mix or if the DVD's contain the original discrete VistaSonic mix used for the 70mm release. VistaSonic was invented by Terry Beard for Paramount and only Popeye and Dragonslayer ever had theatrical releases in VistaSonic sound - VistaSonic was basically an exact duplicate of the Colortek sound system. Terry Beard went on to invent the DTS-6 digital sound system for theaters and bought the ARTEC compression system that became DTS Digital Surround for the home."

However I have no idea where it comes from and who ripped it. I can't find any trace here or on the internal organ (where it probably was released years back).

Anyway, comparing with the 1992 version [LV 1376-WS], the sounds are the same, but the 1992 [LV 1376-WS] has somehow beefed up the EQ, and boosted especially the gun sounds like in Marion's bar. It was a fantastic demo sound disc in it's time, but I somehow like the original mix too. I'm wondering if the DVD 5.1 mix is different from the Blu-ray? Because it sounds to me the Blu-ray 5.1 is the same mix for all the 5.1 foreign languages.

More from the late Disclord.

"Raiders sound was mixed to be played in the VistaSonic Sound system that Paramount had previously used on Popeye and Dragonslayer. Unlike Dolby Stereo that used a matrix to encode 4 channels to 2 optical tracks, VistaSonic used 4 discrete optical tracks in the place of the normal 2. Since they were much smaller tracks, they were noisier, so a noise reduction system was used to improve fidelity. Stereo surrounds could also be employed by use of the SQ Quadraphonic matrix system - the stereo surrounds were encoded onto the Left and Right front channels with SQ - the discrete mono surround track then wasn't used. The playback head used a CCD based reader instead of a photodetector to keep the tracks and their phase response aligned better. The system was invented by Terry Beard who is also the inventor of the theatrical DTS system - while he owned NuOptix, a company that built much of the equipment used to record optical soundtracks, he also worked for Paramount's sound department as a technician in charge of research. There were many problems with VistaSonic during the Popeye and Dragonslayer showings (it had to be turned off during Popeye's premiere at the Chineese theater), so Raiders was switched to Dolby Stereo at the last minute - some minor remixing had to be done to accommodate the limitations of the Dolby logic decoding. The 70mm prints used the 4-track discrete VistaSonic mix unaltered except for the addition of Baby Boom subs. The DVD's 5.1 mix is the original VistaSonic mix so it's slightly different than the Dolby Stereo mix used on LaserDisc. The VistaSonic system was never used again - it had a nice logo though."
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#76
Disclord was how I found out about Raiders and Vistasonic. I still wonder where the 1992 audio came from and if it might be this VS mix like Superman's LD audio was the 70mm mix. The 92 mix is still my favorite overall.

I'm not 4K equipped but in spite of the new transfer improvements and dialing back the BD color tomfoolery on Raiders the redone effects and lack of original audio absolutely kills me. I can't believe we now need a visual comparisons for the Indy films but we do. At least with SW you know about the SEs and multiple changes-most have no idea Indy has a shared fate.
Damn Fool Idealistic Crusader
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#77
Had no idea the dvd was reported to be the vistasonic, need to compare waveforms on it all if I have the dvd still
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