Thread Rating:
  • 6 Vote(s) - 4.17 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
[On Hold] Aliens TV Cut and Theatrical Regrade (Fox THX Laserdisc)
#1
This project is on hold while I work on this one here:

https://forum.fanres.com/thread-2659-pos...l#pid53257 

[Image: cool_geek_film_poster_art_for_aliens_the_martian.png]

Note: This thread is old and this project has changed a lot. I would suggest reading this first post then reading the latest postings and work your way back


Project Info:

This is an attempt to re-create the 1987 CBS TV cut of Aliens and color correct it to look like the color timing of the laserdiscs, particularly the THX LD. The TV cut is a mid ground between the Special Edition (SE) and Theatrical Cut (TC) and lacks several of the smaller scenes of the SE cut while retaining some of the emotional and action moments (see post #37 for a full rundown). Since this cut originally appeared on TV, three small shots of language were cut. This project honors those cut in order to sync the TV soundtrack, which I suspect has re-dubbed lines from Bill Paxton. This project removes many of the "fixes " Cameron put into the movie for the BD release (except the switched guns at the end, that has always been fixed in the TV cut). This project will include the TV and theatrical cut regraded to the THX laserdisc with a reduction in saturation and the reds applies those values to the overly green BD with some tweaks to smooth out shots.


Old Comparison Pics

BD/BD regraded to the 1995 THX LD
[Image: wFdGThY.jpg]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. TV Cut (regraded to the US THX LD v1.8)

Video:
2010 Blu-Ray (SE and TCT) video color regraded to the 1995 THX laserdisc with a reduction in red to match 35mm frames and cut into the TV edit

Audio:
1. PCM 2.0 (from the SE LD)
2. PCM 2.0 (from the original TV Broadcast which uses Bill Paxton's re-dubbed lines.) This is up in the air since I have to see if the track can be salvaged but I would like to preserve it since it appears Bill Paxton re-dubbed his lines.

Pics:
[Image: RKCqwNr.jpg]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3. Theatrical Cut Regrade (Fox THX LD v1.0)

Video:
This is a regrade to the THX LD similar to project 1 but in the theatrical cut format.

Audio:
1. PCM 2.0 (from the THX LD)
2. Dolby Digital 5.1 (from the THX LD)
3. Dolby Digital 4.0 (from the BD)
4. DTS-HD MA 5.1 (from the BD)

Pics:
[Image: OJfBF1E.jpg]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
4. Theatrical Cut Regrade UHD Upscale (Fox THX LD v1.0)

Video:
This is a regrade to the THX LD similar to project 1 but in the theatrical cut format and experimental upscaled to UHD resolution

Audio:
1. PCM 2.0 (from the THX LD)
2. Dolby Digital 5.1 (from the THX LD)
3. Dolby Digital 4.0 (from the BD)
4. DTS-HD MA 5.1 (from the BD)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Collaborators:
jonno: For his knowledge about Aliens and the LDs
Doombot: For testing and advice
spoRv: For advice
Stamper: For his knowledge on the TV Cut
dvdmike: For his insight into a 70mm presentation and the LDs
kaosjm: For his insight into a 35mm presentation
zoidberg: For LD soundtracks
Reply
Thanks given by: Jetrell Fo
#2
Given the fact that I don't like BD grading, for the first pic I like LD, for the second the trailer... What if you merge them, 50/50 - or other percentage, you have to test - to avoid those magentas on LD?

And I add: honestly I don't remember Aliens so magenta on my laserdisc... which edition have you used?
Reply
Thanks given by:
#3
It was less combine the two together 50/50 but using the LD for a spot check against my trailer grade. Make sure the two kind of sync up/look similar. Use the trailer to avoid the extremes of the LD, used the LD to fill in the gaps with the trailer. For example even though I used the trailer some elements of the BD remain. For example there is green on graphics, map, etc leftover from the BD but in every other source the graphics are blue.

One thing people may or may not like about the trailer version is that it is more yellow and could tend to brown.

I used this LD:
http://www.lddb.com/laserdisc/06719/8761...ens-(1986)

I did a lossless capture using Lagarith and Virtualdub. The problem is not really magenta per say but more that the LD's colors can go extreme. In fact blue can be a worse problem. In some parts where there is blue it can be punched up significantly. For example:

https://s17.postimg.cc/e157o6ce7/alien_ld_comp.jpg

You can see in the first pic the facehugger room still has that magenta tint but the room outside is very blue.

But I don't want to give the wrong impression of the LD. For the most part it looks closest to the trailer, especially in the color temperature part (warm vs cold of the DVD and BD).
Reply
Thanks given by:
#4
Even with the extreme colors you can tell the DVD and BD are all directly related since all of them came from a negative scan. For example if you take this pic from the BD:
[s]
https://s9.postimg.cc/5vhp37zpr/face.jpg

and subtract some green you get this:

https://s4.postimg.cc/ddw1ci2vx/bd_2_b.jpg

close to the DVD (if one ignores the darker picture). If you take more green, you get this:

https://s16.postimg.cc/d2x9357wl/bd_2_c.jpg

which is pretty close to the LD. I think the extremes of the LD are just a telecine tech messing with green and blue. Another example:

https://s11.postimg.cc/kyfu39hhf/a_bd_1.jpg

subtract green and you get this

https://s27.postimg.cc/m5nnwo9o3/bd_2.jpg

pretty close to the DVD. My point is I think the DVD might have neutral colors and be bright because it is direct scan of the negative with little color manipulation, whereas the LD and BD are scans of the negative that are colored timed. The BD has a blanket green added. You subtract that green and you get close to the DVD. The LD is colored scene by scene. Its far from perfect but it seems they were going for a release print look with the LD.

I can try to capture the THX LD again and maybe capture my old Pan and Scan LD to see what it looks like.

I guess at the end of the day, is a regrade to the DVD worth doing? The 35mm trailer version is mostly done and the LD version is half done. I'm thinking of putting a 25GB with the LD and 35mm trailer version and let people decide which is better, then release that one. Unless people are clamoring for a DVD version.
Reply
Thanks given by:
#5
So, it will be the theatrical cut, right? Well, even in that case, I' ll give a look at the LD boxset...
Reply
Thanks given by:
#6
I figure I'd stick with the theatrical cut right now but the goal is to also recreate the ABC TV cut which is the extended cut without the Hadley's Hope/lv-426 stuff in the beginning
Reply
Thanks given by:
#7
Like the 35mm regrade, I always remember James Cameron films having that paticular Blue colour to them. Original colour of T2 was another.

The skin tone looks slightly off in the last screen to my eyes (Ripley and Hicks, Pulse Riffle) looks like it has just a little bit to much red in it.
Im no expert on it tho, and you have proberbly tweaked it till tweeking can be done no more lol

Looks like I remember it as a kid and it was the movie that made me want to make movies.
Really looking forward to this.

Out of interest what is your process, programes used ect?
Reply
Thanks given by:
#8
Cameron did love his blues didn't he. Both the LD and the DVD have a lot of blue in them but in totally different color timing. Problem is without a 35mm print we don't know how much blue was in the original film. From all the sources and things I have seen I believe there was blue in the print but not the intense blues. In that way the Blu-ray might be close to right. I kept blue in my 35mm experiment but not as intense as the LD or DVD.

Believe it or not the 35mm trailer had a lot of red in it. I removed a lot and then a lot again that pulled the blacks towards red. I did leave enough red so it balanced out the blue. On thing the trailer did have that other transfers out there is that it has a lot of yellow in there.

Which pics are you referencing CSchmidlapp? In the thread opener or later?

Hopefully if I do two regrade,s the '95 LD and my experimental 35mm trailer, one of those will satisfy people. I could always circle around to do a DVD one later.

Aliens is one of my fav movies too.

I use a combination of Adobe Premiere, DaVinci Resolve and Adobe Speedgrade. I wanted to try to do an automatic frame by frame match like Andrea/spoRv does but I found I'm no good at AVIsynth scripts. So basically I transfer the Blu-ray to a less compressed form (AVI, etc). Cut to movie down into its hundreds or thousands of component shots (alien was over 2000) and take those individual shots and fiddle with it in DaVinci till it matches the regrade source. Sometimes I can gets the colors right in 2 minutes, sometimes it takes days to get one shot right for me.

I highly recommend DaVinci, especially being free. It is a pro level software.
Reply
Thanks given by:
#9
(2015-01-20, 09:23 PM)PDB Wrote: Cameron did love his blues didn't he. Both the LD and the DVD have a lot of blue in them but in totally different color timing. Problem is without a 35mm print we don't know how much blue was in the original film. From all the sources and things I have seen I believe there was blue in the print but not the intense blues. In that way the Blu-ray might be close to right. I kept blue in my 35mm experiment but not as intense as the LD or DVD.

Believe it or not the 35mm trailer had a lot of red in it. I removed a lot and then a lot again that pulled the blacks towards red. I did leave enough red so it balanced out the blue. On thing the trailer did have that other transfers out there is that it has a lot of yellow in there.

Which pics are you referencing CSchmidlapp? In the thread opener or later?

Hopefully if I do two regrade,s the '95 LD and my experimental 35mm trailer, one of those will satisfy people. I could always circle around to do a DVD one later.

Aliens is one of my fav movies too.

I use a combination of Adobe Premiere, DaVinci Resolve and Adobe Speedgrade. I wanted to try to do an automatic frame by frame match like Andrea/spoRv does but I found I'm no good at AVIsynth scripts. So basically I transfer the Blu-ray to a less compressed form (AVI, etc). Cut to movie down into its hundreds or thousands of component shots (alien was over 2000) and take those individual shots and fiddle with it in DaVinci till it matches the regrade source. Sometimes I can gets the colors right in 2 minutes, sometimes it takes days to get one shot right for me.

I highly recommend DaVinci, especially being free. It is a pro level software.
Will check out DaVinci, ive heard about it but never used.
i do my colour correction in Premiere or After effects primarily.

I read somewhere (Maybe your on thread on OT) that Cameron colour corrected the Aliens (Special Edition I Think?) home video release version on his own CRT monitor from home, because this is how he watched films and he would know whether the film looked right or not.

The still i was refering to was this one
[Image: bd_2.jpg]

I realize now it was an example of subtracting the green from the blu ray.
This should be a really great release and If you need help in any way, let me know.
Reply
Thanks given by:
#10
Yeah do give it a try being free. Its pretty nice. The pro version allows 4K and a couple of other things, which is fine since I doubt any of us will be doing much 4K stuff in the short run.

Do you remember want version he did on a CRT at home? Was it an LD or DVD?

Thanks for the nice comments and the offer to help. I'm still not sure what to do with Aliens so all opinions are welcomed. I want to do it justice since it is a favorite.
Reply
Thanks given by:


Possibly Related Threads…
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  [Retired] The Dark Knight (Regrade and Imax Restoration) PDB 133 49,297 2019-08-17, 10:07 PM
Last Post: Setzer
  [Canceled] Die Hard 2 35mm Regrade (The 35 Project) PDB 117 41,849 2019-07-22, 03:44 PM
Last Post: TomArrow
  Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs Regrade FrankT 45 17,774 2019-02-06, 01:43 AM
Last Post: PDB
  [On Hold] Star Trek 2 The Wrath Of Khan Regrade (Paramount Widescreen Laserdisc) PDB 30 5,240 2019-01-15, 08:52 AM
Last Post: CaveDoctor
  [On Hold] Evil Dead Regrade (Japanese Herald Laserdisc) PDB 64 23,419 2018-11-16, 10:51 PM
Last Post: spoRv
  [On Hold] 2001 Regrade (Criterion Laserdisc) PDB 49 15,123 2018-10-30, 10:15 AM
Last Post: FrankT
  [On Hold] Solo: A Star Wars Story (2018) PDB 24 3,769 2018-10-11, 04:47 PM
Last Post: schorman
  [On Hold] Alien 3 Workprint Cut Restoration PDB 16 8,611 2018-08-13, 10:17 PM
Last Post: PDB
  [Canceled] Terminator 2 (Theatrical Cut) Regrade PDB 82 43,520 2017-12-02, 04:28 AM
Last Post: TomArrow
  [Retired] Blade Runner International Cut Regrade (Criterion Collection Laserdisc) PDB 40 30,043 2017-04-27, 05:38 PM
Last Post: PDB

Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)