Thread Rating:
  • 6 Vote(s) - 4.17 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Aliens TV Cut and Regrade (Fox THX Laserdisc)
#1
[Image: cool_geek_film_poster_art_for_aliens_the_martian.png]


Adding another project to the list. The original thread is here: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.c...pic/17002/

Project Info:

This is a color regrade the Blu-ray (BD) to look more like the 1995 THX laserdisc (LD) which appears to be the closest home video release of Aliens has come to a 35mm print (similar to my regrade of Alien).

Another point of this project is to recreate the TV cut of Aliens which lack several of the redundant scene of the SE cut but has some of the emotional moments plus the remote sentry gun scenes (see post #37 for a full rundown)

If there is a desire from people after I'm done with this, I will cut this down to the theatrical cut also.

Video:
2010 Blu-Ray (SE and TCT) video color regraded to the 1995 THX laserdisc and cut into the TV edit (and possibly TC edit)

Audio:
1. 2010 Blu-Ray (SE Cut) Dolby Digital 5.1 cropped down to fit the TV Cut.

2. The soundtrack from the original TV broadcast. This is up in the air since I have to see if the track can be savalaged but I would like to preserve it since it appears Bill Paxton re-dubbed his lines.

Subtitles:
TDB

Pics:
BD/BD regraded to the 1995 THX LD
[Image: aliens_compare_1.jpg]
[Image: aliens_compare_2.jpg]

Thanks
jonno: For his knowledge about Aliens and the LDs
Doombot: For testing and advice
spoRv: For advice
Stamper: For his knowledge on the TV Cut
dvdmike: For his insight into a 70mm presentation and the LDs
kaosjm: For his insight into a 35mm presentation

Project Number: 0003.01



Original Opening

1. Blu-ray regraded to the DVD (1999/Quad)
2. Blu-ray regraded to the 1995 THX laserdisc (similar to the Alien Color Regrade project)
3. Blu-ray regraded to the 35mm trailer scan/frames

Each track has its good points and bad points.

The obvious track is to grade against the DVD. The reason is that at this point that is the color grading that people are most familiar with. The problem I am having is that the DVD looks wrong to me in a lot of scenes. The colors are very muted and subdued. In fact there is a low grade fluorescent look to many scenes. Kind of slight pink and purple highlights. Skin tones are very pale. The color temp tends to be very cool compared to the warmer LD and 35mm scans. The DVD is also very bright for a movie with many horror elements.

The second track is using the the 1995 laserdisc. This actually is a good course to take since I'm already matching Alien to its 1995 laserdisc counterpart. The LD has a warm color temperature and darker then the DVD or BD. That is more fitting with the mood of Aliens. Colors are bright and bold. Unfortunately that is part of the problem with the colors tending to be overstaurated in many cases. If there is blue, it is intense blue. The problematic pinks and magenta of the DVD are pushed 100% in this transfer. Some skin tones go from deathly pale to desert sun tan.

The third track is using the many 35mm frames and scans I have found. Ideally, the best choice is to grade off of a 35mm theatrical print. I don't have that, so I look to the trailer. Trailers are problematic to use since they may or may not have final color timing but since this experiment we will just ignore that. As an experiment I took the average color information of the trailer and applied it to the Aliens BD as a whole. The results are pretty interesting. For the most part it matches the LD without the extreme color saturation. The color timing is warm and dark. There is also a red and yellow tint to the scans which I add to this regrade. Sometimes the 35mm tends to almost brown. The problem is you can't quite color grade an entire movie over a few pics. You need more examples. Even without that I think it looks pretty good and I can fill in gaps from the LD.

Here are some pic examples so people can see what I'm talking about

LD/DVD/BD/My 35mm regrade
[Image: alien_1_comp.jpg]


LD/DVD/BD/My 35mm regrade
[Image: alien_2_comp.jpg]

So I was thinking maybe doing a "sampler version". Finish a couple of regrades and put them on a BD-R for people to decide which is best before a full version. Maybe a 25GB with the LD and 35mm trailer version or a 50GB with the DVD, LD and 35mm trailer together. Once it has been decided which is the best version, I also wanted to rebuild the ABC TV cut. That and remove the digital fixes (Bishop's hole/scratches on the window).

What does everyone think?
Reply }
Thanks given by: Jetrell Fo
#2
Given the fact that I don't like BD grading, for the first pic I like LD, for the second the trailer... What if you merge them, 50/50 - or other percentage, you have to test - to avoid those magentas on LD?

And I add: honestly I don't remember Aliens so magenta on my laserdisc... which edition have you used?
Reply }
Thanks given by:
#3
It was less combine the two together 50/50 but using the LD for a spot check against my trailer grade. Make sure the two kind of sync up/look similar. Use the trailer to avoid the extremes of the LD, used the LD to fill in the gaps with the trailer. For example even though I used the trailer some elements of the BD remain. For example there is green on graphics, map, etc leftover from the BD but in every other source the graphics are blue.

One thing people may or may not like about the trailer version is that it is more yellow and could tend to brown.

I used this LD:
http://www.lddb.com/laserdisc/06719/8761...ens-(1986)

I did a lossless capture using Lagarith and Virtualdub. The problem is not really magenta per say but more that the LD's colors can go extreme. In fact blue can be a worse problem. In some parts where there is blue it can be punched up significantly. For example:

[Image: alien_ld_comp.jpg]

You can see in the first pic the facehugger room still has that magenta tint but the room outside is very blue.

But I don't want to give the wrong impression of the LD. For the most part it looks closest to the trailer, especially in the color temperature part (warm vs cold of the DVD and BD).
Reply }
Thanks given by:
#4
Even with the extreme colors you can tell the DVD and BD are all directly related since all of them came from a negative scan. For example if you take this pic from the BD:

[Image: face.jpg]

and subtract some green you get this:

[Image: bd_2_b.jpg]

close to the DVD (if one ignores the darker picture). If you take more green, you get this:

[Image: bd_2_c.jpg]

which is pretty close to the LD. I think the extremes of the LD are just a telecine tech messing with green and blue. Another example:

[Image: a_bd_1.jpg]

subtract green and you get this

[Image: bd_2.jpg]

pretty close to the DVD. My point is I think the DVD might have neutral colors and be bright because it is direct scan of the negative with little color manipulation, whereas the LD and BD are scans of the negative that are colored timed. The BD has a blanket green added. You subtract that green and you get close to the DVD. The LD is colored scene by scene. Its far from perfect but it seems they were going for a release print look with the LD.

I can try to capture the THX LD again and maybe capture my old Pan and Scan LD to see what it looks like.

I guess at the end of the day, is a regrade to the DVD worth doing? The 35mm trailer version is mostly done and the LD version is half done. I'm thinking of putting a 25GB with the LD and 35mm trailer version and let people decide which is better, then release that one. Unless people are clamoring for a DVD version.
Reply }
Thanks given by:
#5
So, it will be the theatrical cut, right? Well, even in that case, I' ll give a look at the LD boxset...
Reply }
Thanks given by:
#6
I figure I'd stick with the theatrical cut right now but the goal is to also recreate the ABC TV cut which is the extended cut without the Hadley's Hope/lv-426 stuff in the beginning
Reply }
Thanks given by:
#7
Like the 35mm regrade, I always remember James Cameron films having that paticular Blue colour to them. Original colour of T2 was another.

The skin tone looks slightly off in the last screen to my eyes (Ripley and Hicks, Pulse Riffle) looks like it has just a little bit to much red in it.
Im no expert on it tho, and you have proberbly tweaked it till tweeking can be done no more lol

Looks like I remember it as a kid and it was the movie that made me want to make movies.
Really looking forward to this.

Out of interest what is your process, programes used ect?
Reply }
Thanks given by:
#8
Cameron did love his blues didn't he. Both the LD and the DVD have a lot of blue in them but in totally different color timing. Problem is without a 35mm print we don't know how much blue was in the original film. From all the sources and things I have seen I believe there was blue in the print but not the intense blues. In that way the Blu-ray might be close to right. I kept blue in my 35mm experiment but not as intense as the LD or DVD.

Believe it or not the 35mm trailer had a lot of red in it. I removed a lot and then a lot again that pulled the blacks towards red. I did leave enough red so it balanced out the blue. On thing the trailer did have that other transfers out there is that it has a lot of yellow in there.

Which pics are you referencing CSchmidlapp? In the thread opener or later?

Hopefully if I do two regrade,s the '95 LD and my experimental 35mm trailer, one of those will satisfy people. I could always circle around to do a DVD one later.

Aliens is one of my fav movies too.

I use a combination of Adobe Premiere, DaVinci Resolve and Adobe Speedgrade. I wanted to try to do an automatic frame by frame match like Andrea/spoRv does but I found I'm no good at AVIsynth scripts. So basically I transfer the Blu-ray to a less compressed form (AVI, etc). Cut to movie down into its hundreds or thousands of component shots (alien was over 2000) and take those individual shots and fiddle with it in DaVinci till it matches the regrade source. Sometimes I can gets the colors right in 2 minutes, sometimes it takes days to get one shot right for me.

I highly recommend DaVinci, especially being free. It is a pro level software.
Reply }
Thanks given by:
#9
(2015-01-20, 09:23 PM)PDB Wrote: Cameron did love his blues didn't he. Both the LD and the DVD have a lot of blue in them but in totally different color timing. Problem is without a 35mm print we don't know how much blue was in the original film. From all the sources and things I have seen I believe there was blue in the print but not the intense blues. In that way the Blu-ray might be close to right. I kept blue in my 35mm experiment but not as intense as the LD or DVD.

Believe it or not the 35mm trailer had a lot of red in it. I removed a lot and then a lot again that pulled the blacks towards red. I did leave enough red so it balanced out the blue. On thing the trailer did have that other transfers out there is that it has a lot of yellow in there.

Which pics are you referencing CSchmidlapp? In the thread opener or later?

Hopefully if I do two regrade,s the '95 LD and my experimental 35mm trailer, one of those will satisfy people. I could always circle around to do a DVD one later.

Aliens is one of my fav movies too.

I use a combination of Adobe Premiere, DaVinci Resolve and Adobe Speedgrade. I wanted to try to do an automatic frame by frame match like Andrea/spoRv does but I found I'm no good at AVIsynth scripts. So basically I transfer the Blu-ray to a less compressed form (AVI, etc). Cut to movie down into its hundreds or thousands of component shots (alien was over 2000) and take those individual shots and fiddle with it in DaVinci till it matches the regrade source. Sometimes I can gets the colors right in 2 minutes, sometimes it takes days to get one shot right for me.

I highly recommend DaVinci, especially being free. It is a pro level software.
Will check out DaVinci, ive heard about it but never used.
i do my colour correction in Premiere or After effects primarily.

I read somewhere (Maybe your on thread on OT) that Cameron colour corrected the Aliens (Special Edition I Think?) home video release version on his own CRT monitor from home, because this is how he watched films and he would know whether the film looked right or not.

The still i was refering to was this one
[Image: bd_2.jpg]

I realize now it was an example of subtracting the green from the blu ray.
This should be a really great release and If you need help in any way, let me know.
Reply }
Thanks given by:
#10
Yeah do give it a try being free. Its pretty nice. The pro version allows 4K and a couple of other things, which is fine since I doubt any of us will be doing much 4K stuff in the short run.

Do you remember want version he did on a CRT at home? Was it an LD or DVD?

Thanks for the nice comments and the offer to help. I'm still not sure what to do with Aliens so all opinions are welcomed. I want to do it justice since it is a favorite.
Reply }
Thanks given by:


Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Mad Max 2/Road Warrior Regrade (Warner 97 DVD/LD) PDB 220 52,028 10 hours ago
Last Post: Stamper
  Laserdisc Preservation Project Colek 27 1,177 2017-04-17, 11:15 PM
Last Post: CSchmidlapp
  Alien 3 Workprint Cut and Regrade PDB 4 521 2017-02-06, 05:20 PM
Last Post: spoRv
  Terminator 2 (Theatrical Cut) Regrade PDB 81 9,010 2017-01-23, 03:12 PM
Last Post: jerryshadoe
  Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs Regrade FrankT 34 3,590 2016-10-02, 03:09 AM
Last Post: jerryshadoe

Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 2 Guest(s)