Terminator 2 (Theatrical Cut) (35 Project #4)

[PDB]

Terminator 2 (Theatrical Cut) (35 Project #4 v1.0)

Project Info:

A lot has changed since I started this project, including access to more 35mm pics and the release of the 4K remaster. I'm resurrecting this project because on working on my upscale project here:

https://forum.fanres.com/thread-3010.html

and I was really was enjoying the 35mm colors. So, I wanted to apply that grading to a proper scope version of T2. I am using the 4K remaster since it is a superior scan but re-graining it and replacing the "fixed" shots. If you want to read this thread start here and look for updates at the end.

In the end this is now part of my 35 project, which you can read about here:

https://forum.fanres.com/thread-1741.html

Video:
4K Remaster Blu-Ray of the Theatrical Cut (TC) synced to the 2015 BD regraded to various 35mm examples and regrained.

Audio: (Tentative)
1. PCM 2.0 Dolby Surround (from the US widescreen LD 68952-2WS-CDS Mix)
2. PCM 2.0 Dolby Surround (from the Japanese widescreen LD PILF-0001-CDS Mix?)
3. PCM 2.0 Dolby Surround (from the Japanese SQZ widescreen LD PILF-2187-CDS Mix?)
4. PCM 2.0 Dolby Mono (from the Japanese SQZ widescreen LD PILF-2187)
5. PCM 2.0 Dolby Surround (from the US widescreen SE LD 82997-6WS cut down to the TC-Rydstrom Remix)
6. Dolby Digital 5.1 (from the US Artisan DVD-CDS Mix)
7. DTS-HD MA (or FLAC) 5.1 (from the JPN DVD-CDS Mix)
8. DTS-HD MA 6.1 (from the 2015 BD-Rydstrom Remix)

Subtitles:
TBD



Pics:


Thanks:
BusterD
MrBrown
Chewtobacco
Jonno
Doombot
Tservo
soundman

Original Opening

---

So Servo posted these pics over on the OT from an ebay auction.

[Image: t2_b_1.jpg]

I notice how dark blue they were. You could say its wrong since you are not looking at these through a theater projector with a correct bulb but they do look strangely close to a 35mm print of True Lies. Going a little further I saw this video from a 35mm screening https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnEACdAr1rk which also has deep blues with sometimes purple in the mix. The also lack the orange bias that the BD has in the daytime scenes (the motorcycle chase, the Mexican scenes) and the steel factory. I then looked at various other frames from 35mm prints and the Derann Super 8mm , which looked blue but also had a touch of purple too.

I took this frame from the video recording:

Video
[Image: vlcsnap_2015_09_30_09h50m07s96_1.jpg]

I took that pic re-balanced it a bit and applied the colors to the BD to get this:

BD/Regrade
[Image: log_1_1.jpg]

From that regrade I built a LUT and applied it to the whole film, just to see what it would look like. Going off the video many scenes matched up or were closer:

Video
[Image: vlcsnap_2015_09_30_09h59m09s127.png]

BD/Regrade
[Image: log_r2.jpg]

Video
[Image: vlcsnap_2015_09_30_10h07m39s182.png]

BD/Regrade
[Image: log_r3.jpg]

Video
[Image: vlcsnap_2015_09_30_10h08m21s25.png]

BD/Regrade
[Image: log_r4.jpg]

Video/BD/Regrade
[Image: log_r5.jpg]
[Image: log_r6.jpg]

Some comparisons to 35mm frames

35/BD/Regrade
[Image: log_r7.jpg]

Some comparisons to an 8mm projection to come

Its not perfect but there is a good middle ground between the video the, 35mm frames and the 8mm frames. I was surprised how the one LUT was able to capture that middle ground so well.

BR/Regrade (Updated with new LUT)
[Image: t2_update_1_l.jpg]
[Image: t2_update_2_l.jpg]

[jerryshadoe]

Those are some rather impressive results!

Damn shame that we don't have an actual 35mm print to use. Looking forward to your comparisons to the 8mm projection.

It really pisses me off that the studios are messing with the original footage so much when things get released on BD and am really happy to see projects like these. This is film has so many different color-timings out there that it's really hard to know what is the "right" timing without an actual print, since any CAMS of projections will not be completely accurate due to limitations of said cams.

[PDB]

...since any CAMS of projections will not be completely accurate due to limitations of said cams.

Couldn't agree more. I don't trust that cam footage 100% which is why I also am using 35mm and 8mm footage as a guide (that and True Lies). Having said that metall_havy over at the OT just sent me 2 copies of Terminator 2 sourced from 35mm. You can tell because they are 35mm source since they have lines, damage and reel changes.

Here is my problem, one copy has parts that matches up best with the BD. The other better matches with my test regrade. And both have parts that don't match up with either. If fact one of my questions on the OT has been the amount of purple in the film. There is conflicting information about that. Well both have a lot of purple in a bunch of places. So I'm left with a bunch of information that says I'm right, a bunch that says I'm wrong and the BD is right and a bunch that conflicts with both.  

[jerryshadoe]

yeah, I spent a little time reading everything on the OT thread. There is a lot of conflict there on the matter of the timing (from what I understand, also of actual projected 35mm films being different color-gradings as well) and it goes in line with my own personal research and the things I have found here and there online.

Personally, I like that slightly purplish look and the nice blues with the nice yellows (instead of orange) depending on scene, of course. I am wondering if the "final proper" look would end up being a "hybrid" of the movie passed through different sets of color-gradings that are dependent on shot/scene. Granted, more work, but I think it would end up looking really nice. However, I a pretty sure that there will always be arguments for one color-grading over another depending on who watches it.

Maybe said "hybrid" could be achieved collectively here, with the community giving feedback on which seems "most right" for different scenes and we could go with the "ruling majority" in each case. This might be a bad idea, but I still thought I'd toss it out there

[Stamper]

Not much the studio messing, as James Cameron would, since he had to adapt the masters to the limitations of tube TVs. Hence the differences.

[PDB]

I noticed that on my iPhone that a few of the pictures were coming through more purple then on my (calibrated) screen. It was TOO purple. So I reduced the purple a bit (still there) and increase the powder blue highlights, still keeping the oranges as yellow and the skin tones desaturated. Kind of keeping in mind what jerry was talking about

Regrade
[Image: t2_sample.jpg]

What does everyone think?

[DoomBot]

I think Less purple looks better.

[PDB]

I think Less purple looks better.

Thanks, Doom. I agree I think it looks a bit better

[jerryshadoe]

I agree as well. Kinda surprised that someone was reading my post about SotS in the color correction tool thread over on OT and decided to try something similar here. Those are nice results too, except in that second picture from top, where her hair is a little blue . Not sure if this is a matter of your regrade of if it's in original source where that was intended look. The rest of the sample pictures appear to me to be a nice balance with fleshtones looking the way they are supposed to.

[TServo2049]

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.c...Post635572

Did you reference these?