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Heavy Metal (1981) LD vs BD audio comparison PLUS downmixing tips
#1
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All right, so, those of you that know me should already be prepared but just in case you don't know, this will be a very long, detailed post Eek

First, let me hit my green medication :greedy: Happy

[Image: smoking%2Bglass%2Bpipes%2B01111100100320...040667.gif]

Ok, that's better... I needed that a lot, because after working on it for the last few nights, I am FINALLY done syncing the LD PCM to the BD audio... Muthaf****************ka... that was a b**** to sync. In my top ten of worst sync projects. You guys really made me put my money where my mouth is on syncing work Ok

First, let me say that the BD audio is a completely remixed, re-done, revisionist, upmixed (yes, the 5.1 is an obvious upmix bleeding dialog a LOT in the front channel, where I get WAAAAAAAAAAY better results using DPLII on the LD PCM and am thinking of making a custom 5.1 mix...maybe) flat, unbalanced, unsynced (to what's on screen at times, will provide examples) f*cked up mix I have heard in a long time. On top of it, it is scrubbed to death with noise reduction, which might provide a "cleaner" sound, but it's at the expense of a LOT of background ambiance being completely missing. The fidelity is blah on the BD and there is absolutely no dynamic range retained in the mix. The MUSIC, which is a HUGE part of this film is flat and lifeless on the BD. The sfx and dialog are blended at the same volume as the the music, at very low level, taking even more away from the experience when listening to the BD audio. The original mix, contained on the LD PCM, is VERY well balanced, has a very wide dynamic range, is much crisper, retains all of the original cues and dialog placement, but it does have a touch of a noise plain that is above today's "standard's."

Ok, so... there will be a list itemizing all changes that I had to make when syncing the audio BUT first, let me quickly address a matter of downmixing... There are many ways to do this and they are NOT all equal. In case like this film (where I need a very brief portion of the downmixed BD audio to insert into the LD audio) I do what I call "custom" downmixes. I mix the front left and surround left together using custom values (for amplification, phasing[if needed,] panning[if needed,] re-equalizing[if needed,]filtering of other kind, also if needed) to what I need for a particular mix I am syncing... Then I do the same for the right side... Once I have these two audio files rendered, I sometimes will mix the LFE into these (depending on demands on the project) or I go straight to determening the levels desired for the center channel before I mix it into the L + R channel I have already created. Then, once I have this final, custom downmixed audio file rendered, I splice in the portion necessary into the LD audio. (or whatever project I am working on) The transition remains seamless this way and I have done it many times successfully, including this sync job. BE CAREFUL when downmixing, using eac3to, of 24bit 5.1 to 24bit 2.0 because it creates a improperly downmixed audio files. (I will show examples in a moment; this does not apply as much with 16bit audio) An easy way to downmix 5.1 to stereo is to use the "downmix to stereo" PLUS "Hard -6db limiter" (to avoid clipping) plugins in foobar2000 when converting an audio track. For "regular" downmixing this produces the best results in my experience (have been using it for about a decade)

Anyway, on to the shot showing the downmixed 5.1 audio to 24bit using eac3to (which produced an inferior downmix) both waveform & spectral analysis, my custom downmixed stereo track, the synced upsampled to 48khz LD PCM audio...

downmix/custom downmix/LD-waveform

[Image: Cu4f1XI.png]
[Image: cq7lcfN.png]
[Image: Cc6dHA2.png]

downmix/custom downmix/LD-spectral

[Image: cGuKInA.png]
[Image: 3iGKcT1.png]
[Image: 9Jn7YDO.png]


Now, on to my LD sync "changelog" notes:

heavy metal LD to BD sync changelog

WOW!!! This thing "weaves" back and forth, +/-20ms constantly in comparison to the BD (as many as 8 times in a minute) but sounds TONS better. Turns out that this stops happening as often after the 25th minute, almost like the LD was sourced from a tape master, LOL

Timecodes of edits:

8min 12sec - had to remove one frame (41ms) on LD to keep sync (during the honk) seamless

10min 55sec - had to cut 25ms on LD to keep sync (cut during silence) seamless

13min 48sec - had to cut 150ms on LD to keep sync (during the word "wouldn't") seamless

14min 08-09sec - had to add 135ms on LD to keep sync, done via crossfading so it's not obvious. seamless

14min 29sec - had to add 420ms on LD to keep sync, done via splicing in very custom downmixed BD audio. seamless

Honorable mention: 14min 36.250sec - the BD contains something extra that isn't on LD. on the right channel (NOT center) we hear "thank god" and I did NOT add this into the LD audio

14min 42sec - had to cut 435ms on LD to keep sync, done via crossfade so it's not obvious. seamless

14min 58sec - had to cut 25ms on LD to keep sync (around where you hear a horn in the background) seamless

15min 01sec - had to add 295 ms on LD to keep sync, done via crossfading (it's between "...service" and "message for..." and on the BD they did some fucked up time stretching here with a funky ass reverb that sounds like shit) nearly seamless (I can hear it, but I don't think most people will be able to tell and still better than BD so, yeah...BLAM!)

18min 43sec - had to add 50ms to LD to keep sync, done via crossfading (during the engine revving) nearly seamless (was ONLY place I could resync it, as after the dialog there, music starts that I couldn't work with)

19min 37sec - had to cut 41ms on LD to keep sync (right before dialog, during some birds chirping) seamless

25min 21sec - had to add 100ms on LD to keep sync via duping silence from 25min 20sec (right before the gunshot) seamless

25min 23sec - had to cut 100ms on LD to keep sync, done via crossfading (during the echoing right as shots stop but right before the sound of the shells hitting ground, fuckin weird ass BD revisionist shit mix) seamless

33min 22sec - had to add 95ms to LD to keep sync, done via crossfading (during the engine sound) seamless

honorable mention: 33min 29sec - the line "power is not deminished" occurs 35ms early on LD, but was left "as-is" because music and sfx are still in-sync

34min 09sec - had to cut 41ms on LD to keep sync (during background noise) seamless

34min 21sec - had to cut 82ms on LD to keep sync, done via crossfading (the background chatter here is very loud and crossfading was easy, whereas a direct cut was obvious) seamless

39min 12sec - had to cut 41ms on LD to keep sync, done via crossfading (during music) seamless

39min 51sec -had to cut 50ms on LD to keep sync, done via crossfading (during song fade-out right before dialog and I mean right before it) seamless

39min 52sec - had to add 35ms to LD to keep sync, done via crossfading (right after the dialog) seamless

40min 05sec - had to cut 41ms on LD to keep sync (right before we hear, "stern!") seamless

40min 09sec - had to add 41ms to LD to keep sync, done via crossfading the silence (right after we hear, "stern!") seamless

40min 19sec- had to cut 41ms on LD to keep sync, done via crossfading (right after the roar and before dialog) seamless

40min 36sec - had to add 50ms to LD to keep sync, done by dupping the silence there. seamless

40min 38sec - had to cut 41ms on LD to keep sync, trimmed silence. seamless

40min 45sec - had to add 45ms to LD to keep sync, done by dupping silence there. seamless

40min 46sec - had to add 41ms to LD to keep sync, done via crossfading. (now I wanna kill the mofo that did this for the DD,LOL...) seamless
(here, there is also a missing background sfx on BD due to overzelous noise reduction)

Honorable mention: 40min 55sec - 41min 05sec - the dialog here is 35ms early on the LD while the music is in perfect sync with the BD. There is no lip-sync here, so I left it "as-is"

42min 54sec - had to cut 30ms on LD to keep sync, done via crossfading (during the noisy sounds, while hearing footsteps) seamless

Honorable mention: 44min 40sec - 44min 50sec - here, the dialog is 2.3 seconds (!) early on the LD, while the music and all sfx are identical and insync with the BD audio. Here, the BD audio is fucked up and they mixed this wrong. Most people didn't catch it because there is no onscreen lipsync issues, but the placement of the dialog makes sense on the LD, whereas on the BD is obvious that it's off. Left this "as-is." Also, on the LD, we hear "I'm coming b..." and then a clanking sound, whereas on the BD you hear the entire sentence because it's placed after the clanking sound.

Honorable mention: 45min 40sec - the line "what the hell is happening back there?" occurs 430ms earlier on the LD but the music and sfx are still in perfect sync so left this one "as-is" (no onscreen lip-sync issue here)

Honorable mention: 45min 45sec - the word "shit" and the sound of the headphones being thrown occurs 400ms early on the LD and corrects a sync issue on the BD... obviously left "as-is" (the music and other sfx are insync between the two though)

Honorable mention: 47min 34sec - the roar we hear here is very loud and pronounced on the LD, whereas on the BD it's at the same volume level as the music, making it blend in instead of standing out (on the LD, the volume nearly doubles for the roar, in reference to the music - this happens throughout the film numerous times and I mention this one because it's a more severe occurance)

47min 41 sec - had to cut 41ms on LD to keep sync, done via crossfading (right before where hear, "from one war...") seamless

48min 08sec - had to cut 100ms on LD to keep sync, done via crossfading (during background chatter) seamless

Honorable mention: 48min 30sec - 48min 38min - from the moment we hear the drums, the LD audio falls 35ms behind the BD audio and then "auto" syncs back up when we hear the dialog "what I wanna know...." left this "as-is"

48min 46sec - had to cut 41ms on LD to keep sync, done via crossfading (between the lines "...on their backs" and "they are somethin...") seamless

49min 05sec - had to add 500ms to LD to keep sync, done via dupping silence there. seamless
(NOTE: the BD audio cuts off weird there like there was no dialog after... you can clearly hear "will" after "...arm" as it fades that's not on the LD)

49min 42sec - had to cut 25ms on LD to keep sync, done via crossfading (during studdering of "phenomenon") seamless

50min 51sec - had to cut 25ms on LD to keep sync, done via crossfading (before the closing door sound) seamless

54min 18sec - had to add 82ms to LD to keep sync, done via crossfading (before the line "ah, what he does not know...) seamless

54min 34sec - had to cut 90ms on LD to keep sync, done via crossfading (right after the line, "Really?") seamless

55min 01sec - had to cut 30ms on LD to keep sync, done via crossfading (during the clicking of the heels sound) seamless

55min 27sec - had to add 35ms to LD to keep sync, done via crossfading (after line, "are you circumcised?") seamless

56min 10sec - had to cut 200ms on LD to keep sync, done via crossfading (right before the line, "you ok to land this thing?") seamless

56min 30sec - had to add 280ms to LD to keep sync, done via crossfading (right after we hear, "...as if you're straight") seamless

56min 46sec - had to cut 130ms on LD to keep sync, done via crossfading (right after we hear, "oh, wow") seamless

Honorable mention: 56min 49sec - side 1 to side 2 change on LD. nearly seamless (sounds to me like there is a slight audio drop-out for about 100ms but it's not noticeable when viewing due to the scene change there)
FIXED: now seamless (crossfaded a silence from elsewhere in the film to maintain same background noise, eliminating any audio drop-out)

59min 01sec - had to add 90ms to LD to keep sync, done via crossfading (during sfx) seamless

1h 00min 59sec - had to cut 70ms on LD to keep sync, done via crossfading (right before the line, "the city is burning...") seamless

1h 13min 46sec - had to add 25ms to LD to keep sync, done via dupping silence. seamless

1h 16min 25sec - had to cut 70ms on LD to keep sync, trimmed silence. seamless

1h 18min 51sec - had to add 70ms to LD to keep sync, done via crossfading (during the "twinkling" sound effect) seamless

1h 24min 07sec - had to cut 110ms on LD to keep sync, done via crossfading (during the sfx) seamless

Honorable mention: 1h 24min 42sec - the credits music starts 100ms sooner and this is actually right (BD audio is once again wrong) left this one "as-is" obviouslyTongue



Well, that's it... will be... well yeah... hmmm... will be throwing this into the "pool" soonWink
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Thanks given by: Chris Solo
#2
Good god man that's a list of changes! Shame on whomever did the remix of Heavy Metal. Once and awhile you find a REALLY good LD that craps all over the dvd or BD, this is most definitely one.
Thanks for doing this sync and thank you BusterD for getting us the audio.
                                                           



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#3
Jerry, you should stop using that... erm, green medication... Big Grin

Laserdisc still rocks on the audio side! Ok
Fundamental collection thread | Vimeo channel | My personal blog
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#4
Jamaican Homer rocks!
                                                           



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#5
(2016-02-24, 05:04 PM)DoomBot Wrote: Good god man that's a list of changes! Shame on whomever did the remix of Heavy Metal. Once and awhile you find a REALLY good LD that craps all over the dvd or BD, this is most definitely one.
Thanks for doing this sync and thank you BusterD for getting us the audio.

Yeah, there is a lot of changes on this one. More than I've seen on most sync jobs, but still not the worst. It most definitely craps all over the DVD/BD audio. Happy to help guysWink

(2016-02-24, 06:31 PM)spoRv Wrote: Jerry, you should stop using that... erm, green medication... Big Grin

Laserdisc still rocks on the audio side! Ok

Yup, Laserdisc audio "to the rescue!" yet again Tongue

I have a prescription for my medication Sir and it helps more than any pills ever didSmile

(2016-02-24, 09:22 PM)DoomBot Wrote: Jamaican Homer rocks!

Yes, he does!
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#6
I'm not sure if the movie was radically remixed for it's limited theatrical reissue in 1996, (in SDDS sound, was there a 70mm mix  in 1981?) as I swear there were a couple things I've only heard on bootlegs and my recording of an edited version that ran on TNT in the late 80's. Wish I still had that.

The only thing I recall clearly is the robot hot dog vendor in the Harry Canyon segment had a line. Someone over at the Home Theater Forum claimed there were sounds coming from the ball turret before the luckless co pilot opens it in the B-17 segment.
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#7
Whaaaaat? Are you trying to say that the boasting reviews about the bluray audio are not valid??? Wink

Who do I have to kill to get my claws on this audio rip?
AKA thxita on OriginalTrilogy
I help preserving movies as they first appeared in Italy. Often in cahoots with Leonardo
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#8
PM sentWink
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Thanks given by: Evit
#9
Could the missing sound effects from B-17, (as documented by the pre 1996 bootleg VHS I've found) be integrated back into the soundtrack somehow?

The robot hot dog vendor line in Harry Canyon magically reappeared in the Blu Ray mix. Where the heck it got off to in the previous home video releases is anyone's guess.
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#10
If the audio capture is of decent quality, then I should be able to re-intergrate it back in without any problems. This should be a quick-fix so if you want, then send me the audio and I can take a look at itWink

Indeed, the sound mix of this film has been messed with over the years... Huh
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